glock 30 vs 30s

Recently bought a G30S. The nine round magazine has a smaller baseplate that is flush with the backstrap. HK45c(w/LEM) is a softer shooter than the Glock 30 gen4 and 30s. The loaded weight of the 30s is 3 oz. Is the slightly thinner slide on the 30S any real benefit besides being slightly lighter? I don’t have any kind of trigger pull gauge, but it didn’t feel any different than my Glock 19 (click bang reset, click bang reset, click bang reset). If you practice a lot, you won't notice any recoil differences. This is especially useful for shooters with small hands. I carry it every day. Rather, it’s serviceable, but it has the saving grace of being very easy to contour with a Dremmel sander for perfect fit and comfort.I believe that every Glock pistol frame needs contouring as well as stippling, so that’s how my 30S is set up. Glock currently offers four variants of this pistol: a standard Model 30 (the original), the 30SF (reduced frame circumference for an easier trigger reach), the 30S you see here (slimmer slide on an SF frame) and the Glock 30 Gen4. The double spring ... Had a 30s and prefer the 30 or 30sf due to the heavier slide making it more accurate. The GLOCK 30S pistol successfully combines a short frame (SF) with reduced grip size and a slimmer slide (S), with the powerful 45 Auto round. I minor issue, I'm not going to sell my 30S to get a Gen 4 30… Now that we’ve covered holster basics, let’s take a more in-depth look at several popular holsters. Anyway I have always been a gun swapper and got to love glocks in the last year at age 74. I went in to my LGS to look at the Glock 30s in .45acp that he has in stock...and there, lying on the shelf, was a Smith & Wesson 4553TSW in .45acp! The GLOCK 30 SF in 45 Auto caliber has a shortened frame with reduced grip dimensions. Glock 30 Gen 4 vs. Glock 30S - posted in Gear: Love my 19 but thinking about adding a .45 for range use and occasional carry. Glock offers two alternate Glock 30 models – the Glock 30 SF and the Glock 30S. I will call in short term as Glock 30 Vs 30s And Glock Conversion For folks who are searching for I bought a Glock 30s Saturday. Come join the discussion about optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, troubleshooting, accessories, classifieds, and more! I've owned the G30 Gen4 and the G30S...the G30S to me feels much lighter and carries easier in my OWB holster (I bet it would be even better with an IWB)... My preference is for Gen 4 Glocks, but if I had to buy a G30 right now, I'd have to go with the G30S, even though it's a Gen 3. Being Armed Is A Mindset, Not A Physical Condition - Rob Pincus. Springfield xd mod 2 .45 VS Glock 30S - posted in Semi-Auto [Handguns]: Hi all. Powered by WordPress and Stargazer. Whereas, the Glock 30S holds 9+1, 10+1, and even the 13 round Glock 21 magazines. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Normally I avoided Glock in the past due to the fact that their pistols are uncomfortable for me me to grip. Grab your G30s from an authorized GLOCK dealer today. I have the G30, which fits my hand and two holsters perfectly that I already had. Glock 30S vs. Glock 30, What’s the Difference. I decided to go a different direction and sold it. So to sum it up, the Glock 30S is a short frame Glock 30 with a Glock 36 slide. 1. less compared to the G30/G30SF. Both are enticing offers — but even if I had money to spare, I’m not sure I’d want one over the other. I do feel that I wish I had gotten a Gen 4 Glock 30. Poorly done - probably by a "technical writer" that had no clue what he/she was indicating. Of course, the Glock 36 is a 6+1 gun, which in my mind screams back up gun. While it is actually larger (width and length) than the XDs, it’s still a Glock and the Springfield is still not a Glock. I am currently looking for a new Glock and want to get either a G30S or G23. I am looking for something as a back up in the home, occasionally carry in the truck and conceal carry. Glock offers two alternate Glock 30 models – the Glock 30 SF and the Glock 30S. The Glock 30S is an easily concealable, compact .45 with good capacity vs. size and weight. I found the recoil easier to control than the Kimber 1911 Compact Stainless that I shot a few weeks ago, but I’m a Glock guy so that may just be a matter of preference. Grab your G30s from an authorized GLOCK dealer today. I have a 30S, love it & I carry it everyday Also the 30S will work with a G21 Magazine if you want more Firepower to Practice. Comfort in the holster: This went to the 1911. Glock currently offers four variants of this pistol: a standard Model 30 (the original), the 30SF (reduced frame circumference for an easier trigger reach), the 30S you see here (slimmer slide on an SF frame) and the Glock 30 Gen4. Glock 30 Vs 36 Concealed Carry And Glock 30s Slide See Price 2019Ads, Deals and Sales. The best way to describe it is to say that the Glock 21 is the full size version and the Glock 30 is the compact version, then they made the Glock 30SF, which isn’t much different in size than the regular Glock 30. Follow us on Twitter @OcSpeed In this review we go over the line of Glock 30's as well as 29's and the conversion thereto. It’s basically exactly what we have come to expect from Glock. But it is certainly more powerful than the 19. My wife is always telling me to be more considerate, so this is where I start. I shot standard Winchester White Box and some Federal FMJ, no problems. I had a Glock 30S. As accurate as anything else I have ever shot and a pleasure to shoot compared to an officers model 1911. 9:28. Editor's note: View our "Glock's 30S" photo gallery for detailed photos of the pistol.Most people wouldn't put Glock in the category of firearms manufacturers known for their wide variety and constant stream of new products. I've had my 30S and carried it off and on for the past 2 years (almost) so here's my opinion. If I were to choose between those two, I'd get the 30S. This is a holster made from saddle leather which is molded to fit specific firearms. ... Glock 30S vs Glock 19 Comparison Video - Duration: 6:53. Shooting and showing the new Glock 30S, a great little defensive pistol in .45 ACP. Bill, this may mean little in the bigger scheme of things, but it's worth considering. Glock will make you any kind of pistol you want, as long as it is a polymer-framed, striker-fired semi-automatic, in black. It’s a freaking Glock, it shoots like Glock Perfection. Although some states will not allow the 9 or 10 round magazine because of the asinine 7 round magazine restrictions, but I digress…. I bought two 13 round mags, but they don't feel good without the spacer. The slide is already the smallest part of a Glock, any trouble concealing one will come from the frame. Suite 500, Troy, Michigan 48084 USA. When I told Eddie at AFS that I was carrying the Mass-compliant 10-round 9mm G19 in the new holster, he freaked me right the f’ out. Since you're a lefty, try releasing the magazine using your trigger finger, then generation means nothing. Glock 30S: Defining a Subcompact. I shot the 30 Gen 4 and loved it but Ive heard the 30S is just as sweet a shooter but significantly easier to carry. In a strange turn of events, I was able to find tons of .45 ACP at Wal-Mart. As far as .45 ACP goes, the Glock 30 conceals with the best of them and carries up to 11 rounds. It’s a compact CCW, or backup pistol, with a double stack magazine holding 10 rounds of… Oh My! Comparing the M&P and the GLOCK. The 30s is great for my small hands due to the short frame double stack grip. Glock 30SF: The 30SF is a version of the Glock 30 that uses a Short Frame lower which is based on the standard G30 frame (same width), but reduces trigger reach from the back of the grip by 2.5 mm (0.098 in). Compare the dimensions and specs of Glock G26 Gen5 and Glock G30S It's slimmer profile and clean lines made it easier and more comfortable to carry around the range. Compare the dimensions and specs of Glock G30S and Glock G36 The Glock 30S has the 1.13″ slide of the Glock 36, which is the smallest version of Glock’s .45 ACPs. Good question. I prefer the Gen 4 G30 for the way it SHOOTS, seems to shoot just a touch "softer". less than the 30 which is not a big deal to me. Despite recent advances in bullet technology that make the 9mm almost its ballistic equivalent, there’s still something comforting about the big, trashcan-shaped round. The 30s is a silly marketing gimmick that really stands to benefit no one. It felt more comfortable in my hand than the 19, probably because of the short frame grip and the fact that I have small hands. Fun Gun Reviews Presents: Glock Comparision: Model 30 vs Model 36. I don't carry mine but if I did, the 30s would be my choice. T.I.A Simong. So I talked myself into a Glock 30. The American gun buyer has had a love affair with the .45 ACP for more than a century now. The 30SF has the thicker slide of the 30 I wonder why the 30SF is listed as having an optional 13 round magazine but the 30S only a 10. The 30S is thinner but the 30 eats about all the recoil. Best Subcompact Glock 26 vs 27 vs 30 - Duration: 9:28. Ultra-reliability, eats any kind of ammo no problem, and Glock has found a way to lessen the felt recoil when shooting .45 ACP out of a compact gun. The slimmer slide appeals to me. Strange how things change up on you. I almost bought another G21, but there's no room for two full size .45s, and a carry would be nice. Dan Wesson Pointman 9, HK USP Compact, HK USP .45, S&W 3913 Tactical, Glock 30s, Glock 23, CZ 75 Tactical Sport and a Ruger SR22. I will call in short term as Glock 30 Vs 30s And Glock Conversion For folks who are searching for Even though I am a .45acp fan, I love my G3 Glock 23. Pearce PG-30 For Glock 30 Grip Extension Black $ 5.89 (7) XGRIP MAG SPACER For Glock 29/30 30S .45AC $ 14.33 (50) Glock G30SF G3 10+1 .45 ACP 3.77" OUT OF STOCK (44) Glock G30S G3 10+1 .45 ACP 3.77" OUT OF STOCK (23) Glock G43 USA 9MM $ 569.00 (44) Glock G17 G3 17+1 9mm 4.48" The GLOCK 30S pistol successfully combines a short frame (SF) with reduced grip size and a slimmer slide (S), with the powerful 45 Auto round. The G30SF accepts the same double-stack .45ACP magazines as the G30 and G21. So I went ahead and got it. The G30SF is one of the favourite choices of plainclothes officers and security personnel around the world. Glock 30S and Glock 30SF. Glock's new pistol is another .45 in Glock's lineup. Note the railing for laser mount or light mount. Hence, the GLOCK 36 frame has a width of 28 millimeters and the GLOCK 30 S is significantly wider at 32.5 millimeters. It’s a compact CCW, or backup pistol, with a double stack magazine holding 10 rounds of… Oh My! I’d carry it, I’d trust my life to it. The major difference is that the Glock 30S (on the left) has a thinner slide than the full regular sized Glock 30. The hump of the grip starts sooner on that smaller frame and for me anyways, makes the 30's (all of them) feel extra fat in the hand, notably more so than the larger 21's where the hump starts further down the grip. The 17 is a full size frame which holds 17 rounds as a standard, as opposed to the 30’s 10-round standard mag. It falls right in between the venerable Glock 30 and the only single stack Glock, the 36. Mainstream 'science' wears a big red nose and size 30 boots. The slide is already the smallest part of a Glock, any trouble concealing one will come from the frame. Glock 30 vs. Glock 30S Interested in hearing opinions from those who own either. JavaScript is disabled. >>click here to compare Glock 30s to Springfield Armory 45ACP XDs<<. Compare the dimensions and specs of Glock G30 Gen4 and Glock G30S Same frame as Glock 30 but with a smaller slide. I've owned a G30 for at least 10 yrs. The concealed carry craze has swept the U.S. and everybody wants a piece of the action. I have both the G30 Gen3 and the G30S. G19V.3 Gray, G19FS.4, G19.4 Full Fde, G21.4 Gray, G22 (Gills).3, G43, Gray, G42, Black, CZ 75D PCR, Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 3290 W. Big Beaver Rd. click here to compare Glock 30s to Springfield Armory 45ACP XDs. I guess I look foolish for telling everyone to get a 9mm gun because the 9mm round is easier to find (not true when the crap hits the fan I guess). C4 Defense 152,251 views. That wasn't much help was it? Mini Slide Holster by DeSantis. My Glock 19 is still my primary carry, and I’ll be honest with you, it’s not as comfortable to wear as some of the thinner guns out there (Beretta Nano, Sig P290). Glock 30 vs. Glock 17 Without getting into the whole 9mm versus .45 AUTO caliber debate, I’ll say that the main differences between these guns resides in the size and firepower. Here is a side by side of the Glock 30S vs the Glock 30. I don't find the slimmer slide more concealable and really prefer the feel of the Gen 4 frame and mag release. Compare the dimensions and specs of Glock G30S and Glock G36 I have no issues whatsoever with the decision. Of course that’s a difference between compact and subcompact, but this isn’t an article about subcompact 9mms. 1. The thing about the Glock 30, which I will call a compact gun (not a sub-compact), is that the Glock 30 has the same width slide as the full size Glock 21. If I had to replace it I'd get another G30 Gen. 4. anyone own both or at least one of the two? But for some reason the 30s felt just right when I was messing around with it. CC's well and comfortable with no printing. Glock Model 30 vs Model 36 - Glock … Same frame as Glock 30 but with a smaller slide. I know the slide is slightly more narrow on the 30s compared to the 30 but the width of both guns is exactly the same according to the Glock specs and the other dimensions are the same. Comparing the Model 30 to the M&P 9c on my belt, I found them to be akin in size. Glock 30S: Defining a Subcompact. Glock has the luxury of being able to produce as many different types of pistols as they can dream up and of course they want to create a pocket .45 ACP…[sociallocker id=”1383″]Glock first came out with the Glock 30 chambered in .45 ACP, then they said, “make it smaller,” and produced the Glock 30SF (short frame) which is loved by all. I should say that the short frame grips give good purchase here and if you are shooting with the 10 round magazine there is extra real estate for your pinky finger due to the 10 round magazine’s wide or larger base plate. ◀Previous Post Next Post I’ve been experimenting with a Bladetech 5.11 retention holster for our T&E (Testing and Evaluation) Gen4 Glock 19. Glock reports a 5.5 pound trigger pull. Just picked up a new 30S yesterday and shot it today for the first time, 79 rounds no malfunctions. The .45 ACP-chambered Glock 30S (i.e., 30 Slim) is a variation of the Glock 30SF (i.e., 30 Short Frame). I didn’t find it any easier to conceal than my Glock 19, which is a compact 9mm (same holster even). Pick either of them and you won't be wrong. I bought a Glock 30s Saturday. Glock 30S and Glock 30SF. Also, remember in the GW Bush era when unilateral action was bad? I keep the G30 on the night stand with 13 round mags. Glock 30 Vs 30s And Glock Conversion is best in online store. “Robert do me a favor,” he said. Both are 45 ACP and compact size but the differences are key to the one right for you. The circumference of the receiver, or the back strap, offers increased comfort and control. We Test Drive the Glock 30S and the Springfield XD-S. It is my EDC. Ill shoot the 30S soon but thought Id ask for some input from people who have made their own choice between the two pistols. I think the jury is still out as to how much easier the Glock 30S is to conceal than the other versions of .45 ACP Glocks. Photo by Mark W. Clark. It’s kind of confusing to describe exactly what the Glock 30S is because it is an amalgamation (yes an amalgamation) of a few different Glocks. My son has the G30S as his primary off-duty carry. My old favorite, the beloved .45 ACP. Dan Wesson Pointman 9, HK USP Compact, HK USP .45, S&W 3913 Tactical, Glock 30s, Glock 23, CZ 75 Tactical Sport and a Ruger SR22. Shown above with the 10 round magazine. This is especially useful for shooters with small hands. I don't think you will be dissappointed at all with a Glock 30. Comfort & Controllability The Glock pistol frame is not what most would call comfortable. The width dimensions shown on the Glock website are misleading and confusing. That makes it a little lighter, about 3 oz. Ever since Obama has been threatening to unilaterally pass some gun control executive orders, I have been unable to find 9mm rounds anywhere, but .40 S&W and .45 ACP are in abundance at Wal-Mart and Academy. G30 like any glock is a quality firearm, I had preferred the 30s, ultimately the sig 227 was the glock killer in 45 for me. The 30S provides reliable firepower in a compact, accurate and affordable package that conceals easily and shoots well. Looking further, I encountered the GLOCK Model 30. I'm right handed, but have always moved my mag releases on Sig's and Beretta's to the right side so I can drop the mag with my finger off the trigger as well as not having to reposition my hand to reach with my thumb. I currently own a G22 and G27, which i love both. Here is a side by side of the Glock 30S vs the Glock 30.The major difference is that G19X.5, Coyote, G17.4 Gray, G17 (Gills).3. Even though the changes are subtle, they make a big difference in the feel and carrying characteristics of the little 45 Glock. Shooting the Glock 30S . We Test Drive the Glock 30S and the Springfield XD-S. And if any of you had the misfortune of watching Obama get innagurated today, then you know that now is as good a time as ever to go buy another Glock. This is great info and I was really on the fence of both the 30 and 36 myself. Sig has been slow (like always) in getting supply to the market but the 320 in all calibers is already a very sought after firearm. The only external difference between the two is the thinner Glock 36 slide replacing the 30SF slide.. With all due respect to the venerable, beautiful, and often very expensive 1911 design, guns like the GLOCK 30S are guns for the people. Where features and design are concerned, the pistol obviously takes its cue from the GLOCK series. The G-30 is quite wide with its 10 round magazine. Without getting into the whole 9mm versus .45 AUTO caliber debate, I’ll say that the main differences between these guns resides in the size and firepower. I shot the 30 Gen 4 and loved it but Ive heard the 30S is just as sweet a shooter but significantly easier to carry. Comparing the M&P and the GLOCK. I am going to buy a Glock 30 or 30s in the coming weeks. Photo by Mark W. Clark. The one true caliber! I would think the 30 may be better with recoil since its got a bit more mass. The Glock 30S 45ACP FS Handgun (10RD) is one of the most popular handguns in the world. The 17 is a full size frame which holds 17 rounds as a standard, as opposed to the 30’s 10-round standard mag. The American gun buyer has had a love affair with the .45 ACP for more than a century now. It is as reliable a pistol as was ever made and it’s easy to customize; with a wide variety of after-market components and holsters available. And it is definitely larger and thicker than the Springfield XDs, but you only get 7+1 with the XDs. Glock currently offers four variants of this pistol: a standard Model 30 (the original), the 30SF (reduced frame circumference for an easier trigger reach), the 30S you see here (slimmer slide on an SF frame) and the Glock 30 Gen4. My old favorite, the beloved .45 ACP. Pick either of them and you won't be wrong. As with all my Gen3's, adding a set of Talon Grips & a Vickers Mag Release improves the ergos to a level approaching that of the Gen4's. Normally I avoided Glock in the past due to the fact that their pistols are uncomfortable for me me to grip. So I went ahead and got it. The 30SF (Short Frame) only differs in that the front-to-rear grip profile is diminished. And the Glock 30S doesn’t vary much from the other 2 versions of Glock 30, except that the Glock 30S has a 0.14″ thinner slide. I really don't have a problem with the recoil and it's a good range gun and CCW gun. You honestly just need to at least hold both to see what feels better in your hand. Ill shoot the 30S soon but thought Id ask for some input from people who have made their own choice between the two pistols. I probably wont be getting outside to shoot it anytime soon, but here's hoping for good things. Great gun, but I still missed the Glock. If I could only keep one it would be the 30. This gun shot tight accurate groups, even for a novice shooter like myself. Despite recent advances in bullet technology that make the 9mm almost its ballistic equivalent, there’s still something comforting about … Onsale Glock 40 Model 22 And Glock 30 Gen 4 Vs 30s Glock 40 Model 22 And Glock 30 Comparing the Model 30 to the M&P 9c on my belt, I found them to be akin in size. Its compact design and simple operation allow smooth drawing and handling of the pistol. Glock 30S: Defining a Subcompact. Glock G30S_Details 2591_phatchfinal The GLOCK 30S in .45 AUTO has traditional GLOCK sights, which are known for their durability and fast targeting 7 of 19 Glock G30S_Details 2586_phatchfinal A cutting-edge hybrid, the new GLOCK 30S combines the firepower of the GLOCK 30 SF frame with a comfortably slim, concealable slide while maintaining a 10+1 capacity. I didn’t shoot out to 25 yards, only at 3 yards and 7 yards so my reports of accuracy should have an asterisk by them stating (for probable concealed carry distances). Glock 30 Vs 30s And Glock Conversion is best in online store. Top 5 Glock 30 Holsters. You really need to get into a store and hold some in your hand. I ended up with a 26 instead due to the fact that it's smaller and I feel if you have to go to your backup then most likely all you're doing is getting rounds off to try and get cover/suppress until backup arrives. I've had my 30S for a while now. We’ll discuss their pros and cons and give you a good understanding of the specific holsters. P320 C 45 or Glock 30S. Well, one thing that hasn’t changed is that Glock still rocks, and OU still sucks. Probably better than I can shoot. Editor's note: View our "Glock's 30S" photo gallery for detailed photos of the pistol.Most people wouldn't put Glock in the category of firearms manufacturers known for their wide variety and constant stream of new products. Which one would you go with and why? I'd just as soon have the full size G-21 as the G-30 If you want a slimmer gun consider the single stack G-36 in 45 ACP. Looking at one of this 2 guns as my next purchase. Love my 30S and dead accurate with no failures. The 30S is thinner but the 30 eats about all the recoil. The Glock 30S is my favorite of the compact 45 ACP Glock pistols, and is, in my opinion, a great improvement over the Models 30 and 30SF pistols. I have been excited about this gun for a good while now. Glock 30 Gen 4 vs. Glock 30S - posted in Gear: Love my 19 but thinking about adding a .45 for range use and occasional carry. Looking further, I encountered the GLOCK Model 30. But for some reason the 30s felt just right when I was messing around with it. Perhaps it is Glock’s answer to the Springfield XDs .45 ACP. TNGlockman 170,593 views. But the one thing that keeps me from getting (another) 30/30S is the grip, it still feels fat to me. It's barely bigger than the G19, and holds 10 rounds. It was a really nice pistol. I don't see much of a difference in terms of concealability. I guess I am gonna have to go buy the G30S now so I can honestly and accurately answer your question. Anyone who prefers an inside the waistband holster (me) knows that the thickness or width of the pistol will determine how comfortable it is to wear on your body. A forum community dedicated to Glock firearm owners and enthusiasts. And I thought I was just about even accuracy wise with both guns. 01-13-2014, 06:28 AM #20 chgofirefighter SPECIFICATIONS: Model: GLOCK 30S Caliber:.45 Auto Magazine capacity: 10 (stock), 9 and 13 available […] Shooting and showing the new Glock 30S, a great little defensive pistol in .45 ACP. Visit glockstore.com today for your own firearm and all your best Glock accessories I recently bought a Sig P227 to replace it. Strangely enough, it also fits in my Crossbreed Supertuck that is molded for my Glock 19. Glock will make you any kind of pistol you want, as long as it is a polymer-framed, striker-fired semi-automatic, in black. As a owner of all 3 I find that the HK45c has a better trigger, is more accurate, and the ergonomics fit my hands better. The best defense is a good offense, and I'm really offensive. It’s really just your garden variety perfect Glock gun. The 30s is a silly marketing gimmick that really stands to benefit no one. The one true caliber! I got tired of waiting for the Gen4 30s and settled for a Gen3. Glock 30 vs. Glock 17. P320 C 45 or Glock 30S. The circumference of the receiver, or the back strap, offers increased comfort and control. 10+1 beats 7+1 every day of the week. Granted I only did about 30 minutes of carrying for each, but the 1911 didn't dig into me on the edges like the Glock did. It is only 6+1, but very comparable in … My local LGS is selling a Glock 17 Gen 3 for $400 and a Glock 17 Gen 4 for $450. Hands down the Glock. I have the G30 Gen 4. This is a discussion on P320 C 45 or Glock 30S within the P250, P320, & P320 X-5 Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Pistols category; I asked this same question on the Glock Forum so I felt it was fair to ask it here too. The 30S is my EDC because the slide is thinner but I like them both obviously. The 30SF (Short Frame) only differs in that the front-to-rear grip profile is diminished. Then instead of saying make it smaller they said, “make it thinner,” and now we have the Glock 30S (slim). Copyright © 2020 Best Concealed Carry Gun 101. I probably wont be getting outside to shoot it anytime soon, but here's hoping for good things. Just wanted to add my experience with the Glock 30. The 30SF is my all time favorite hand gun.....by far. Does the slide have something to do with 30S being limited to 10 rounds [10 rounds is enough] but I am curious. Glock 30 Vs Glock 30s And Glock Modular Optic System Low Price 2019 Ads, Deals and Sales. Used to have a 36 but it had too many fte's for me to be comfortable with although it was 100 % with self defense loads, at the range with regular ball ammo was a different story. I have a 30s and think I would prefer the 30sf because of the thicker slide. It is basically a G36 slide on a G30SF frame. This is a discussion on P320 C 45 or Glock 30S within the P250, P320, & P320 X-5 Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Pistols category; I asked this same question on the Glock Forum so I felt it was fair to ask it here too.

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